Ghost versus Demon

[Carole McDonnell]

Well, I am trying to figure out why so many Bible-believing Christians say that there are no such things as ghosts. Yes, yes, there is the bit about the Witch of Endor and some folks say it was a demon masquerading as Samuel, others say it was the real ghost of Samuel being allowed to come up. Some say the woman screamed because she was surprised because Samuel came up, and others say she screamed because she realized Saul was deceiving her.

Personal opinion: I like a good ghost story. But I tend to think that an evil unsaved person would probably be immediately put into hell after death. So if there is creepy ghostly stuff going on in a haunted house -- and I've lived in a couple weird houses-- then it's probably a demon associated with a person who died in that house.

So if a ghost is "good" it would have to be a demon pretending to be good, or pretending to be the person's departed soul, or if it is indeed the deceased person, then the deceased needs to know the gospel since he/she is stuck on earth for some reason. So really trying to figure out this stuff.

In addition, when the disciples saw Jesus walking on the water, they thought it was a ghost and he didn't say, "Ghosts don't exist"; he said, "A ghost doesn't have flesh and blood as you see me have."
Anyways, all this is to say I think I have a really good ghost story in me but I want to be Biblically correct.

[Timothy Fish]

You might consider looking at Macaiah's Vision in I Kings 22 and II Chronicles 18. While visions in the Bible are often symbolic rather than true to life, his vision seems to imply that there may be spirits among the host of heaven whose job is to persuade people. Ghosts in the form of the souls of the dead is an unbiblical concept, but the concept of other kinds of spirits moving about on earth isn't necesarily unbiblical. God himself is a spirit.

[Carole McDonnell]

Hi Tim:

I love Macaiah's Vision. I totally believe that there are spirits who persuade people. Hey, if demons can tempt us and if an angel was sent to persuade Gideon, I can totally believe that we live in a world where we are persuaded by spirit beings can tempt us--whether visible or non-visible. Was never sure if the angel who went forth to be a lying spirit was a spirit of deception who had fallen -- cause in Job we saw that at a heavenly council Satan showed up. In which case, God would have allowed the evil being to help him. Or if it was a good angel who decides to do the deception...which is also possible because Moses says "if there arises a prophet who prophesizes stuff that comes true yet who tells you to forsake God for other gods the Lord your God tries you."

But you made two assertions which might not be true. The first assertion is that visions in the Bible are often symbolic rather than true life. There are a lotta visions in the Bible that are symbolic rather than true. But in the cases of theophanies where we see a vision of God. . .I tend to think that visions in the Bible are often BOTH symbolic and true to life. Often. So that's the first.

The second assertion you made is that ghosts in the form of the souls of the dead is an unbiblical concept. Not true. Nowhere does it actually states this. It is a concept that is perhaps a Biblical assumption. Or even a presumption. But there are certain things we simply cannot call unBiblical or Biblical because the Bible doesn't really declare one way or another. I'm not being a pain just being honest. I don't much like the idea of ghosts or the souls of the dead being "stuck" on earth. And I tend to believe that the ghosts I've had to deal with were probably demonic spirits that inhabited people who died. And when those folks died, the demon in them stayed at that room or place. But I don't like arguing from ignorance. And I can't quite come out and say certain unspoken concepts are Biblical. I mean I wouldn't say that folks who commit suicide go to hell or that Christian folks who commit suicide go to heaven. I honestly don't know. I would NOT tell anyone to kill himself.

The only thing we ever hear about ghosts in the Bible is when Jesus said, "A ghost doesn't have flesh and blood as you see me have." Of course we could say that Jesus was just using the "vocabulary" of his contemporaries but that he himself doesn't believe what he says. But I have heard too many folks say that Jesus used the "vocabulary" of "hell" because that's what his contemporaries believed. I try to be Biblical. And that means if the Bible leaves something open, I have to leave it open also. I don't know if ghosts exists but I've had some close encounters with ghosts that certainly makes me wonder.

[Timothy Fish]

If there are human souls wondering the earth then they must be one of two kinds, either Christian souls or lost souls. 2 Corinthians 5 tells us that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (speaking of Christians), so that eliminates the Christian souls. In Luke 16, we see that the lost rich man went to hell. He no longer had the ability to communicate with his brothers, so the concept of dead people walking the face of the earth goes against what the Bible shows us is the nature of the afterlife.

[Holly]

What a great discussion! Like the author I must admit I love a good ghost story and have been contemplating working on a short story involving a ghost. However I wanted to be correct regarding scripture. You've all given me a lot to think about it and research. Thanks!

[Michael Scott]

Hmm.... While you're correct that the rich man in Jesus' parable was in Hades (not hell. Hades. Greek word meaning "the abode of the dead. Comparable to Sheol in the Old Testament), it does not automatically follow that this is the outcome for every unsaved soul. Nor is the "abode of the dead" ever specified in terms of place. I'm not ruling out final judgment, nor suggesting hope for the dead and damned, just asserting it's possible that spirits of men may roam. They may not all be locked up in torment like the rich man. What if the torment is something akin to what Dickens described in A Christmas Carol? There is room for that view.

The word daemon literally means "evil spirit." That certainly applies to fallen angels, but it can legitimately be applied to spirits of men as well. The only question is whether or not it happens. Regardless, we are not to have any intercourse (and I mean that primarily in the non-sexual sense, though that sense applies, too!) with these sorts of entities.

I'm afraid the subject of ghosts gets too easily ruled out of court, usually out of the reactionary grounds of avoiding spiritualism or the occult. Certainly avoiding such idolatry is essential, but it's best not to do that by creating doctrines lacking full scriptural support.

[Garry R. Kennedy]

I have also had some close encounters. They make you stop and think do I really know all that there is to know about the spiritual realm. No, I don't but I will now listen more closely to those who have experienced something similiar and not dismiss them as delusional.

[Georgiana Daniels]

Absolutely fascinating! I hadn't really thought about it one way or the other, but the discussion sure gives me pause.

[Garry R. Kennedy]

I hadn't either until I started to write my book and then some very weird things started to happen. I have asked the Lord and other Christians if I should share these events that not only happened to me but to other family members and friends. I think the answer is yes. Why? Because the truth is the truth even if I don't understand it...yet. Plus, other Christians may be having similar experiences but are too afraid to share them. What do you think?

[Charles Funderburg]

I would have to agree with the idea that the only 'ghosts' that walk this earth would have to be demons, or angels.

When angels come here, they usually appear in human form, if necesary, otherwise they are dealing with demons.

Demons could appear any way they want, but usually are in spiritual form.

But the ghosts of dead people, as has been said, are either in Heaven or Hell. And paradise, before Jesus rose from the dead.

[mark hunnemann]

the verse you refer too has the greek word phantasm-the connotation is that of a superstitious,untrue belief.Here is something to think about:The New Testament records Jesus exorcising innumerable demons from people who were in trouble in one way or another(possessed or oppressed).From the literature and reports of ghost hunters today thousand.if not millions,of undead people are roaming around. If that is true today,then it must have been true back then as well.People died quick horrible deaths back then too...committed suicide.ect. If 'ghosts'wreck such havoc now,then we should logically assume they have through all history-including when Jesus walked the earth.NOT ONCE does Jesus say that they must visit some place/person because they are being harrassed by ghosts.NOT ONCE.We do see Him interacting with demons very frequently in the New Testament.Lastly,if it is true that there innumerable human spirits caught in some limbo.what does that say about God's sovereignty?The bible says that the Trinity has control over every molecule in the universe(if He didnt) He could not give us that sweet promise that all things work for our good..Jesus overcame sting of on the cross.The bible clearly says that at death,we are divided into 2 groups.Do you see how the suppossed existence of a 'third' group-millions of human spirits who are STUCK-how that casts a shadow over the God-nes of God.There are angels and demons-no ghosts.It scares and grieves me that this ghosthunting phenomenon is growing so rapidly.It is bringing people into contact with the demonic and all this hullaballoo is diverting attention away from the centrality of the cross and the singular dignity of our Lord Jesus.